The Case For Trump, For Biden, And For Neither

Mish

The election is Tuesday November 3. You have a choice.

The Case "For" Simplified

  1. For Trump: He is not Joe Biden
  2. For Biden: He is not Trump
  3. For Neither: The USA Deserves Better and Needs Better

OK we can add a few things. 

Trump made a couple of decent Supreme Court picks, but many would disagree. He did not start any new wars.

Biden will not be as divisive as Trump, on anything. He pledged to accept the treaty with Iran. I am strongly in favor of that, but many aren't. 

The Case Against Trump

  1. Trump's trade policy is a disaster and the disaster will continue. 
  2. Trump proved beyond a shadow of a doubt trade war are neither good nor easy to win. 
  3. USMCA is marginally worse than NAFTA. Trump made zero deals of merit.
  4. Trump is the biggest narcissist ever. 
  5. Trump is willing to trade security for soybeans with China 
  6. Trump is willing to trade voting security for Congressional votes on Covid.
  7. Trump belittles friend and foe and allies anytime anyone disagrees with him.
  8. Trump is willing to use racial or ethnic slurs, for example calling Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas". 
  9. Trump is being investigated for tax fraud and the charge is easy to believe.
  10. Trump did not start any new wars but he did not get us out of Iraq, Afghanistan, or Cuba.
  11. Trump shifted troops to Poland instead of bringing them home. 
  12. Trump has praise for dictators like Kim Jong Un in North Korea and Putin in Russia.
  13. Trump's budget deficit is out of control and was even before Covid hit. 
  14. Trump requested and received ridiculous amounts of military spending.
  15. Trump-sponsored tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthy.
  16. Trump's administrative sleaze and rolling staff appointments are unprecedented. 
  17. Trump's handling of Covid was abysmal.

The Case Against Biden

  1. Biden is likely to bail out the states.
  2. Biden will be beholden to public unions who wrecked states like Illinois, New Jersey, and California.
  3. It is highly unlikely Biden will last a full term. 
  4. Kamala Harris is further Left than Biden on many issues.
  5. More taxes
  6. Higher taxes
  7. Biden sponsored bills that put more blacks in prison for the benefit of public union prison  guards, much if not most of it pot charges.
  8. Seriously, what has he ever done?

Overwhelming Case

I am quite sure I have left off numerous "against" points for both candidates. 

All things considered, we have an overwhelming case for neither.

Mish

Comments (122)
No. 1-42
TCW
TCW

"Trump has praise for dictators like Kim Jong Un in North Korea and Putin in Russia." "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

gregggg
gregggg

I wish we could vote against the Federal Reserve's existence. That would be a vote that counts.

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

You lost me at "the case for Trump"

Runner Dan
Runner Dan

"Biden sponsored bills that put more blacks in prison for the benefit of public union prison guards."

Homey, please!!!!!!!

The crime bill from the early '90's helped significantly reduce crime. Law abiding people, regardless of color, do NOT care what color predominates the prison population any more than basketball fans care what color predominates the courts.

Eddie_T
Eddie_T

Neither party is about to address the real issues...but the biggest case against Trump is not on your list....and that would be the things he hasn't done yet, but might do, if he's allowed to keep thumbing his nose at the rule of law and our political traditions.....some of which are worth hanging on to.

We certainly should be able to do better than either of these two clowns. They are artifacts of a failing system...but at this moment, Biden represents less of an immediate threat.

I think higher taxes are in the cards no matter who is elected. I think the real systemic problems we face are being ignored...but are not going away, and won't be fixed by anybody. They aren't even being discussed by politicians.

Like how do you keep an economic engine based on perpetual growth going when growth starts to stall out?

How do you keep even a modest social safety net going when most of the tax revenue gets wasted on debt service and the military.....and every government program is a scheme to enrich some political insider?

Those of us who have managed to build some kind of personal fortune....even a small one......the people who used to be called "middle class"...still have a lot to lose. And we might well lose it in a massive deflationary depression, which appears to be nearly inevitable.

I can see how a vote for Trump might be tempting for someone disgusted with the fake diversity message and the creeping socialism of the Democrats.....but it's really a vote for chaos.

Mr. Purple
Mr. Purple

I like option #3. But only after option #2.

Only one significant change is possible on 1/20/21 and that is the removal from office of Trump. After that, you have four years to work on more substantial change. Go for it. Voting 3rd party in this election or abstaining is impotent.

Everyone wants change today, but no one wants to put in the hard work. Voting is not due diligence -- it is just one weak political option. Dedicate yourself to strengthening a 3rd party or forming a new one. Confront your representatives directly. If you don't, it will be an endless series of false dichotomies.

Rbm
Rbm

Well i feel both parties suck. At this point dems less than rep for me. My hope is this is a turning point both parties will realize the middle is where we need to be and also actually solve problems. To hell with the far left and rt. Been pondering the last 20 we have been arguing the same topics. Abortion/gun control/ immigration. Havent really solved those problems now have we. Ill vote for whoever cuts corporate campaign finance and dark money. To me corporations should have rts of citizens when they can pick up an m16 and go fight for their country. Sorry this turned into a rant.

goldguy
goldguy

Biden has been in Washington DC for what 50 years?

Trump has been in Washington DC for what 4 years?

Simple arithmetic, no brainer here

nzyank
nzyank

Hmmm - Trump 17 to Biden 8 - seems to me there is a clear winner :)

Regarding points against Biden:

  1. If the Federal Government does not provide support to states, this will place the country's economy in further jeopardy. Federal support makes sense since the Feds have more financing options - better credit rating and ability to print money - than the states do.
  2. In California, Terminator Arnold fought the public unions - and unlike in the movies, it didn't end well. I think it is better to work with the public unions instead of continuously trying to fight them.
  3. We are voting for Biden's vision of America. In this respect, it really shouldn't matter if he lasts a full term. Right now he is healthy, much healthier than Trump, so no reason to believe he won't be able to serve at least a full term, if not two terms. He will be much better than Trump at building a competent team around him, so if something happens, I don't have any concerns about effective continuity of government.
  4. I don't view Harris as being radical left. There are many Bernie supporters that I suspect would be frustrated with a Harris Presidency. I think she would not radically change Biden's approach of trying to build unity.
    5&6 - In the current circumstances, a coherent fiscal policy and increased government spending is needed to help mitigate social and economic disruptions that are occurring. The various options with respect to funding spending increases all need to be explored by the new administration - higher taxes, printing money, borrowing.
  5. I really don't think this will be the case under a Biden/Harris administration. They are well suited to appropriately address these types of issues.
  6. What an insult - he has served this country for his whole life.

Note that I respect many of the people who joined Trump's team with the hope that they could make a difference. Now, I think it is time to join and support the Biden team, with the hope that we will make a difference.

killben
killben

"For Neither: The USA Deserves Better and Needs Better"

Just imagine what it means when a country of 330 million has to choose between these two.

I believe the real power of a citizen does not lie in the ability to vote but in the ability of NOT TO VOTE.

Choose neither till you get the right people (don't ask me how we will know but then not choosing the wrong one because we have only two horrible choices would be a good start) on the ballot paper!

AWC
AWC

Jo Jorgensen 2020!

The 3rd party alternative to the status quo.

Augustthegreat
Augustthegreat

You should make a list of "What tRump/Biden has destroyed": tRump is the Destroyer-in-Chief of the USA and the whole world.

Sechel
Sechel

Summarized Trump is not capable of governing or respecting the framework of our democracy while Biden has policies you don't agree with. It's a false moral equivalency to compare Trump and Biden.

Sechel
Sechel

Trump doesn't act legally or respect our institutions. Biden does. Trump puts his own his interests above the nation's . Disagreement over policy I can handle.

JonSellers
JonSellers

Trump and the Republicans have proven that MMT works!

Louis Winthorpe III
Louis Winthorpe III

There's no case for Trump.

Trump is an enemy of American Democracy and a friend of autocrats and dictators, particularly Putin.

He is the most transparently corrupt POTUS in at least 50 years and surrounds himself with criminals that he chooses to hire.

Zardoz
Zardoz

trump needs to go. Failure should not be rewarded.

lol
lol

Trump can still pull it out,remember obama got reelected in a really weak,pretty much dead economy,so there's still hope for Trump.Problem is Trump crashes and burns,he'll take the entire Republicon party down like the Hindenburg with him!

Sechel
Sechel

Charlottesville was inexcusable. Damage can't be repaired. Only gotten worse since. And I was not impressed before

FactsonJoe
FactsonJoe

Joe Biden has promised amnesty and US citizenship to all ILLEGAL immigrants in USA.

There were 29.5 million ILLEGAL immigrants in USA in 2018 according to a MIT-Yale study.
This means 29.5 million new users of Medicare/Medicaid, Section-8 housing, SNAP-EBT foodstamps, state welfare systems, federal tax credits etc. all leading to more debt for government or cuts in those programs.

The amnesty will attract tens of millions new ILLEGAL immigrants to USA to wait for the next amnesty and this will lead to tens of millions jobs stolen from Americans and lower wages for all working class Americans.
The huge rush of ILLEGAL immigrants in the 1990's was caused by the 1986 Reagan amnesty that gave US citizenship to millions of ILLEGAL immigrants.

The one issue Trump was most right on was stopping ILLEGAL immigration.
The only problem is that he has built just about 200 miles of the border wall when border with Mexico is 1950+ miles because Trump was a lazy and incompetent doofus the first two years while Republicans had house and Senate and allowed himself to be sweet-talked and ass.kissed by Paul Ryan to try to get rid of Obamacare without any plan to replace it and give Ryan's career the achievement of huge tax cuts that mostly benefited the wealthy although normal people got some tax breaks too like raise in the child tax credit from 1000 dollars per child to 2000 dollars per child.

Trump should have started returning everybody coming through Mexico to USA back to Mexico and refuse to take their asylum applications because Attorney General has power to act this way without judicial review under existing law so USA should be taking ZERO illegal immigrants and ZERO asylum seekers and just return them all to Mexico since Mexico is a SAFE enough country and according to Geneva Convention asylum applications need to be taken ONLY when asylum seekers come DIRECTLY from the country they are persecuted or claim to be persecuted and this is likely based on known facts.

Sessions was out of his depth as AG since he started the stupid kids in cages policy to separate parents and children (with the cages built by Obama admin to stop the 2013-2014 rush of unaccompanied children Obama admin caused by changing family unification policy) to stop ILLEGAL immigrants coming with kids to use the Flores decision to get released into USA when Sessions could have under 8 U.S. Code § 1158 just have STARTED RETURNING EVERYBODY to MEXICO and NOT take one single asylum application.

8 U.S. Code § 1158:
"(a)Authority to apply for asylum
(1)In general
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title.

(2)Exceptions
(A)Safe third country
Paragraph (1) shall not apply to an alien if the Attorney General determines that the alien may be removed, pursuant to a bilateral or multilateral agreement, to a country (other than the country of the alien’s nationality or, in the case of an alien having no nationality, the country of the alien’s last habitual residence) in which the alien’s life or freedom would not be threatened on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion, and where the alien would have access to a full and fair procedure for determining a claim to asylum or equivalent temporary protection, unless the Attorney General finds that it is in the public interest for the alien to receive asylum in the United States.

(B)Time limit
Subject to subparagraph (D), paragraph (1) shall not apply to an alien unless the alien demonstrates by clear and convincing evidence that the application has been filed within 1 year after the date of the alien’s arrival in the United States.

(C)Previous asylum applications
Subject to subparagraph (D), paragraph (1) shall not apply to an alien if the alien has previously applied for asylum and had such application denied.

(D)Changed circumstances
An application for asylum of an alien may be considered, notwithstanding subparagraphs (B) and (C), if the alien demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Attorney General either the existence of changed circumstances which materially affect the applicant’s eligibility for asylum or extraordinary circumstances relating to the delay in filing an application within the period specified in subparagraph (B).

(E)Applicability
Subparagraphs (A) and (B) shall not apply to an unaccompanied alien child (as defined in section 279(g) of title 6).

(3)Limitation on judicial review
No court shall have jurisdiction to review any determination of the Attorney General under paragraph (2)."

Geneva convention is a multilateral agreement so Trump and Trump's AG (Sessions/Whitaker/Barr) could have started returning everyone back to Mexico WITHOUT JUDICIAL REVIEW of the decision OR Trump could have demanded Mexico sign same deal with USA as USA has with Canada where first country will handle asylum process which would make Mexico handle 100% of the people's asylum process that come through Mexico to USA but Trump did NOT demand this and got just some promises Mexico would guard their southern border better (occasional news about Mexican troops tear-gassing and beating migrants to stop them coming) and put some thousands of Mexican troops to US border to stop ILLEGAL immigrants before they reach USA.

If USA started returning EVERYBODY to Mexico this would make Mexico close their southern border better than they have done after Trump gave Mexico still quite beneficial terms in USMCA not much better than NAFTA from the viewpoint of USA.

If Joe Biden gets elected it is the end of USA and Republicans will NEVER again have presidency or majority in house or Senate after the Biden amnesty and because Europe always copies USA (Merkel was effected by Obama to allow the millions to come in 2015) it will be the end of Europe as well because Joe Biden's plans are unfathomably insane and Merkel will most likely copy them before leaving Europe in ruins.

Democrats also plan to either abolish ICE totally or make whole of USA a SANCTUARY so deportations will crash leading to even more gang members and criminal ILLEGAL immigrants being returned to the streets instead of being DEPORTED.
The Democrat controlled SANCTUARY states and cities releasing ILLEGAL immigrant criminals and gang members back to the streets are bad but under Joe Biden USA would be a SANCTUARY country.

If you do NOT vote or you vote for Joe Biden you will be responsible for the destruction of USA.
Also Joe Biden wants to RE-DIRECT police funding which is a roundabout way saying that Joe Biden wants to DEFUND the police which means more crimes will go unsolved which will lead to more crimes happening and more riots and looting by Antifa and BLM's self-admitted Marxists.

Vote Trump even though he is a boorish self-obsessed idiot who has NOT done enough in his first term like make the choices described above or sign an executive order making e-Verify mandatory for ALL jobs in USA which would have led to self-deportations since no work means no way to stay.

Also birthright citizenship for children of ILLEGAL immigrants could have been stopped with an executive order since when a person is ILLEGALLY in USA it is clear their DOMICILE is NOT in USA and therefore the leftists bureaucrats way of granting birthright citizenship to children of ILLEGAL immigrants starting from the Reagan presidency is ILLEGAL and should have been stopped.
There is NO other country in the world that gives citizenships to babies born to ILLEGAL immigrants.
Birthright citizenship was meant and should be given to babies born to LEGAL permanent residents whose DOMICILE is clearly in the USA.

Tony Bennett
Tony Bennett

"More taxes
Higher taxes"

...

Absolutely.

The top 20% has continually been bailed via fiscal / monetary policy ... at the expense of the bottom 80%.

Let them start paying for some of THEIR welfare. Or, if they don't want to pay more in taxes, fine. Let Federal Reserve / Treasury stand idly by at next risk off event. I would enjoy watching their portfolios crumble.

Advancingtime
Advancingtime

American voters will have to choose between Donald Trump and Joe Biden to be our next President. It could be said many voters are not jumping with joy.

Both of these men are old. Biden sports signs of dementia and has been accused of corruption. Trump is considered divisive and not as truthful as many people would like. The article below argues are flawed presidential election process is responsible for giving America such poor choices.

njbr
njbr

I really would prefer a candidate no older than 60 or 65. But one party has now disqualified itself by it's support for the naked emperor and his endless incapacity. Anything and everything is permitted now because of "the special powers of the president".

......[Fox's] Hannity chose this life, so no one felt sorry for him, but the stress took its toll. “Hannity would tell you, off-off-off the record, that Trump is a batshit crazy person,” one of his associates said. Another friend concurred: “Hannity has said to me more than once, ‘he’s crazy.’”

But Hannity’s commitment to GOP priorities and to his own business model meant he could never say any of this publicly. If one of his friends went on the record quoting Hannity questioning Trump’s mental fitness, that would be the end of the friendship....

njbr
njbr

Mish should be honored to have a full-time flacker for Trump assigned to him--@FactsonJoe--sign of big thing on the netweeby-innertubes!

Joined today, welcome! After all in a blog about the economy, content is cash--for someone.

But rattling on about demon Biden will become tiresome.

Mish
Mish

Editor

The US overthrew a democratically elected president in Iran and replaced that person with a Shah US puppet. They have every reason to still be angry with us.

The US supports one of the largest terrorist nations in the world, Saudi Arabia. The US is of course #1.

All of our allies, the UN, and even US military said Iran was honoring the treaty.

Trump's idiotic go it alone policy just drove Iran into the hands of China.

Those are the facts

Maximus_Minimus
Maximus_Minimus

Heads you lose, tails you lose, too. That's my bet.

nlightn
nlightn

I predict that come Nov 3,...people will either enter a voting booth or do their mail-in,...they write in Bernie Sanders and cast their vote for him.

When the tabs are counted,...

Bernie Sanders will be POTUS. He got the peoples vote.

Wouldn't that be a mind f*ck.

Carl_R
Carl_R

I suggest that people try the poll at http://www.isidewith.com

That will tell you if you really back Biden, or really back Trump, or perhaps should seriously consider one of the third party candidates. There is no reason the choice needs to always be binary. In Europe it is not uncommon for parties to have to form coalitions.

MorningCoffee
MorningCoffee

Lesser of two evils or the evil of two lessers?

Jackn
Jackn

I notice the cons for president Trump were about style and not substance.

Webej
Webej

‘I am quite sure I have left off numerous "against" points for both candidates.
All things considered, we have an overwhelming case for neither.’

Yes. Though not historically unique, there is one disqualifying quality they both share. Their grasp and understanding of most issues is less than that of any serious Junior High student, who can at least be expected to improve on the job.

CzarChasm-Reigns
CzarChasm-Reigns

Trump is such a liar that he makes old fashioned politicians look good again.
No sarc off here. Serious.
Policies can be an after thought.
First, we need of a leader with some moral character.

michiganmoon
michiganmoon

#9 against Biden is that too many on the left have lost their mind.

Vote Jo Jorgensen.

MichelleMac
MichelleMac

The case for neither is solid. Jo Jorgensen address criminal justice reform, a true understanding of the limitations of the executive office. It's too important to give my vote to those who have not earned it with horrific records. #ShesWithUs #LetHerSpeak https://jo20.com/

bradw2k
bradw2k

Let's ask their wives: Do you love and respect your husband, or do you f-ing despise the shallow lying a-hole? Melania, you go first...

Jam_Ham
Jam_Ham

We've been bailing out every bad company with the fed buying their bad debt. Seems unfair to let local school districts and muni employees take the hit now.

The Window Cleaner
The Window Cleaner

Trump a 3rd rate conspiracy theorist intellect and the most corrupt self dealing president EVER. Add to that he's a walkin' talkin' felony for the last several decdes.

Biden will likely fail to make significant changes because like both Dems and Repubs he's either ignorant of complicit with the private banks who dominate everyone and every business model other than Banks/Finance with their monopolistic monetary paradigm of Debt Only. If you want to see how we can end transfer taxes, cut personal and corporate taxation by 3/4, end inflation and reverse the erosion of individual purchasing power we've suffered since the 70's then go to Google and search Wisdomics-Gracenomics. It's the libertarian's wet dream made a reality.

nlightn
nlightn

The article below illustrates why Kamala Harris must be exposed for who she really is. Someone who is willing to fabricate and misrepresent to create her agenda. Which is to make it appear she is for the people. What an out and out lie which this article exposes,...

stillCJ
stillCJ

Editor

Mish listed many things he does not like about either candidate, of which many are false in the case against Trump. For example, he thinks Trump is more devisive. Fact is, Biden and the dems are much more devisive. Any objective thinker can see the repubs are much more willing to go along with the dems than visa-versa. Mish correctly pointed out that Biden has basically done nothing positive in his long political record, while Trump has many positives to his credit in his short career. Mish ignored that: very biased.

JG1170
JG1170

The way I see it, it's a win-win for Republicans. If Trump wins, they get to enjoy seeing the left and the media sulk, squirm and fume for four more looong years. If Biden wins, well he gets to preside over the worst economy since the Great Depression and that should pave the way for an "I told you so" Trump to re-take the White house in 2024.

awc13
awc13

i would love to see biden hold an hour long press conference, live, in person and not know what the questions or topics will be beforehand

Marty1h
Marty1h

Without LP candidate Jo Jorgensen in this discussion, it's just weak soup.