Is Trump Guilty of Inciting an Insurrection Against the United States?

Mish

That is the question at hand as the House just delivered an Article of Impeachment against Trump to the Senate.

Impeachment Article Delivered

A second impeachment trial of Donald Trump is about to begin as Article of Impeachment Sent to Senate.

The House sent over the article of impeachment of former President Donald Trump to the Senate Monday evening, officially starting the countdown to a trial expected to highlight the rifts within the GOP over Mr. Trump’s legacy and his future influence over the party.  

The House impeachment managers, who will act as the prosecutors in Mr. Trump’s second impeachment trial, walked through the Capitol to deliver the article, which alleges he incited a mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

“There is only one question at stake, only one question, that senators of both parties will have to answer before God and their own conscience,” said Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D., N.Y) on the floor of the Senate. “Is former President Trump guilty of inciting an insurrection against the United States?”

House Impeachment Managers Deliver Article 

Senator Patrick Leahy (D., Vt.), is the the new president pro tempore of the Senate.

He will preside over the trial, which begins the week of February 8. 

Jeff Flake Responds

I commented on Jeff Flake in Trump's Revenge Tactics May Harm Republicans For Many Years

In his farewell speech, Trump said he will be back in ‘some form’. It will do neither him, nor the party any good.

Trump Will Not Be Back

Except to sling mud, Trump will not be back, convicted or not.

  • What will his health be in 4 years? 
  • How many more things will he say or do that will turn off voters?
  • Will he want to run?
  • Will he be in prison on tax evasion or election fraud, unable to run? 

Where are the Votes?

For now, I am still sticking with my assessment that McConnell may already have the votes.

For details, please see Which Senators Are Likely to Convict Trump?

In that post I named 15 possible Senators.

In McConnell Accuses Trump of Feeding a Mob Lies I upped the possible total to 21.

It is in neither McConnell's best interest nor Biden's to claim they have the votes so it's not a good idea to rely on Biden's statements today.

Finally, there are too many reasons for Trump not to be back, whether the cultists still love him or Trump is convicted.

Mish

Comments (150)
No. 1-37
njbr
njbr

Guilty, but the Republicans will not convict.

He wanted permanent power, those are the leaders he fell in love with.

amigator
amigator

Negative Mish McConnell will milk this for all the attention he can get pick up some more donations and few chips under the table.

Thats a pretty big cult over 70 million must be a Guinness World record? I'll check.

Don't we think there might be some real problems in our country buried in all his support?

Louis Winthorpe III
Louis Winthorpe III

The establishment GOP needs to cut out the MAGA cancer and take their meds before it is too late. Otherwise it will destroy it from within.

Dodge Demon
Dodge Demon

12 years too late.

ToInfinityandBeyond
ToInfinityandBeyond

Is Trump guilty? Hell, yes. Will he be found guilty? Hell, no. All water under the bridge at this point. I am more interested in how some of the State cases play out. I sure as hell hope the Republican Party comes to its senses and steps away from the white racist politics promoted by Trump and embraced by his white non college degree supporters.

Webej
Webej

The notion that Trump will come back like a zombie from the undead is as ridiculous as the allegations that he was on the phone with Putin during the Jan 6 disturbances. Impeaching somebody who cannot actually be impeached, like the trial of pope Formosa, will only serve to turn the public against Rome, er, Washington. There will be no benefit but will serve to further fracture American society.

Corvinus
Corvinus

"Is Trump Guilty of Inciting an Insurrection Against the United States?"

No.

Dave Long
Dave Long

If Trump is guilty then a hell of a lot of Democrats are guilty too for statements they've been making all through 2020. But everyone has quietly ignored them, even though they were clear and overt. Then Trump's statements are blown up into a huge thing. Supposedly they are 'dog whistles.'
Yet people wonder why the opposition to the Dems is getting more and more angry. It's a puzzle alright.

TexasTim65
TexasTim65

Doesn't matter whether he is or not. The trial is just bread and circuses to distract the masses from the fact that Biden, Congress and the Senate is essentially impotent to solve any real crises like say the Covid one or the fact that massive unemployment is coming with no realistic plan to get America working again.

I don't think Trump ever planned to seriously run again in 4 years any more than I believed Hilary would after she lost 4 years ago. At best he was (is?) hoping to pave the way for an Ivanka run. That may be scuttled now.

Trump will never be in jail. At least not what any of us would consider jail. As a former president he gets lifetime security detail from Secret Service. They would not be able to be next to him in prison, even in club Fed. With the state secrets and other things he knows he would be a massive target. At absolute worst he'd get house arrest in Mar Largo followed by a commuted sentence.

Sechel
Sechel

January 6th was Trump's Coup de Grace. He won't be back in four years. But 17 Republican will not vote to convict. The percentage of Republican voters still backing Trump are too high. Republicans are still too afraid of being primaried or have dreams of running for President and don't want to lose the backing of Trump Republicans. No other way to explain Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio. Doubt they really believe what they are pedaling. Niki Haley says Trump was just having a bad day:

“January 6th was a tough day. The actions the president since Election Day were not his finest,” Haley said, engaging in rank understatement. “It troubles me greatly because I am proud of the successes of the Trump Administration. Those were the right policies. That’s what our party cares about and looking to do. If you look at the foreign policy side, the strength we were able to show was really important.”

The problem in addition to Senate Republicans afraid of the fallout is 12 of them signed on to Trump's coup attempt declaring they would vote to not recognize state certified votes. Founders new the Senate was political body and this is the problem with holding an unbiased fair trial in the Senate. The results will be political. Of course to the unbiased mind there can be no doubt. Trump's acts were committed virtually in front of the American people. We all saw and heard his call to the Georgia A.G.. We saw the repeated lies that the election was stolen, the lies about Dominion and Smartmatic. We heard Trump and his surrogates plan and incite the base. Taken in whole and in context the intent was clear.

Eddie_T
Eddie_T

I’d be very surprised if he gets convicted. And anything other than a conviction is NOT good for the country, at this point. It will perceived as a criminal President getting away with inciting murder by a lot of people.

All the people will know he got away with reprehensible behavior....and it will be obvious that the rule of law has been taken for a ride one more time...and that” important” men can do and say things the rest of us would go to jail for.....

I will say this....if the people that Trump incited to riot go to jail and he does not even get convicted and made ineligible, it’s a miscarriage of justice, and that Trump’s foot soldiers will have taken the fall for him. And that....is quite likely at this point.

ColoradoAccountant
ColoradoAccountant

Trump was a life long Democrat. There was talk before he was elected that he was a Trojan Horse sent to destroy the Republican Party. It is curious how his rants lost Georgia, and afterwards he started playing nice with the transition.

njbr
njbr

(Politico) A message from the Trump camp...

The message from Brian Jack, Trump’s former political director at the White House, is the latest sign that Republicans considering an impeachment conviction will do so knowing that Trump may come after them in upcoming primaries if they vote to convict him for “incitement of insurrection.”

Jack did not mention impeachment in his calls. But he wanted the word to get around that Trump is still a Republican — and for many, still the leader of his party.

“The president wanted me to know, as well as a handful of others, that the president is a Republican, he is not starting a third party and that anything he would do politically in the future would be as a Republican,” recounted Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-N.D.). “The Republican Party is still overwhelmingly supportive of this president.”

PostCambrian
PostCambrian

I don't know why they didn't include election tampering in the charges. They have over sixty minutes of audio of him trying to tamper the Georgia presidential election. I am quite certain that if Biden said the same thing that Trump did outside the capital then all GOP senators would vote to convict and most likely at least 17 Democratic senators.

Mandelabra
Mandelabra

The real question is does the truth even matter?

KidHorn
KidHorn

Wake up to the obvious. The democrats are using this as an excuse to push through their fascist agenda. They want complete authoritarian control of the country and will use this as an excuse to silence the opposition.

FromBrussels
FromBrussels

Insurrection? Really ? You aint seen nothing yet ! Btw, the demonstrators, under the circumstances, behaved quite decently, especially when compared with looting and property destroying Blm and Antifa terrorists. In a worst case scenario they might ve burnt the symbolic mthrfckr down! It is funny actually that the US of A finally got a tiny little taste of the medicine it applies in other countries, orchestrating and/or supporting riots under the fake heading of democracy ! Trump is a fckn coward though, he should have headed the protestors on their way to the sacred Temple of Corruption, a smug and spoilt brat like him lacks the cojones of course. And yet Trump and his populist rant are NOT to blame, he was merely the catalyst bringing to the surface deep rooted underlying frustrations by a increasing number of superfluous people within the context of a modernized, automized, informatized, greenitized, ostracized, internationalized etc, society. A society in which more and more people, even middle class, are being pushed off 'the american dream 'wagon. For the time being, the Dems will appease the 'deplorables' with out of the blue created money. What will happen when(not if) inflation reaches disproportionate numbers ? I hope I am wrong but the future definitely doesn t bode well, not only in the US for that matter, Europe is sick in the same bed, with a better social safety net still, unsustainable nonetheless....

Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill

If Trump's behavior is any indication what the GOP now approves as noted by the actions of the state party in Arizona, I am with Flake as a lifetime Republican voter who didn't vote for Trump and support the Trumplican arm of the party. Count me out.

What will be interested knowing fakes like Ted Cruz, Chris Christi, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and others are already thinking about 2024, is how they will act if they have to run against Trump and how they will attack him to ensure they get through the primary process as the winner. I am sure Mish will be one of the sources we can count on to remind these people of their blind servitude to Donald Trump.

I do hope we find a true liberty small government type to inspire the GOP and properly lead the GOP back to something that more closely resembles sanity.

Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill

Apparently Flake got kicked out of his GOP family...

Looking back at the past four years after I jumped off the Trump train and tried to point out the reckless government spending Trump was pushing, demanding the Fed to continue the endless printing of dollars while pushing low interest rates even lower blowing the bubble bigger, his inability to lead his party to fully repeal Obamacare, his push for more gun control, and so many other actions that should not have been embraced by small government types, I pray my family lets go of Donald Trump and heals the wounds that have been created throughout my family caused by Trump's divisiveness. Never in my right mind did I believe my own mother would stop talking to me for opposing trillion dollar deficits, gun control actions of POTUS, bailouts, redistribution of wealth, and so many other actions of Donald Trump.

I have a cousin who has been shamed by his father for not supporting Trump. It's sad.

Bungalow Bill
Bungalow Bill

I am curious why Alex Jones is not a subject/or charged with this insurrection. Sure he didn't enter the Capitol but his presence encouraging his Infowars sheep to storm the Capitol was evident in many of the videos I have seen. One of these Infowars lambs told the FBI he was committed to carrying out the schedule Jones laid out prior to the insurrection. Alex Jones ignored many truths about Donald Trump that he has spoke out against for years (such as it was the Rothchild Bank that bailed Trump out of his Taj Mahal financial woes) to become a warrior in Trump's Kool-Aid drinking army.

njbr
njbr

The ultimate Trump defence:

A failure to recognize that what a "performance artist" does is "entertainment" is the fault of the dopey listener.

frozeninthenorth
frozeninthenorth

First off this is a political trial and not so much based on the facts at hand. Hence to have lawyers there seems to miss the point. In fact, in a court of law, it would be hard to prove that Trump incited violence...at the limit, his words were construed as an act of sedition, and the funny thing as more time passes the more information comes out to show how much Trump's organizations did to support the demonstration -- but a demonstration and invading the Capitol are two different things.

Must say that I don't miss The Donald at all

Mackkenzie
Mackkenzie

I think Mish is mistaken in saying that it is not in Trump's interest to continue to meddle in republican party politics. Trump can keep himself in the media and exert power as the republic king maker by continuing to energize his "base" and encourage primary challenges, and threats of endorsing competitors, for any republican leaders who refuse to show fealty.

This would be terrible for the republican party, preventing them from moving on to a new post-Trump world, but it is the most effective means by which Trump can continue to maintain some degree of political power and national attention. As Trump has long said, the only thing that really matters to him is ratings, and becoming the spoiler-in-king for the republican party would certainly allow him to do that.

njbr
njbr

Party of personal responsibility says nope to accountability.

No possible legal or constitutional consequences because consequences would hurt fee-fees.

Got that.

Is there anything left of the foundational, rock-solid beliefs of the Republican party?

That's a serious question--is there anything left?

Mark anthony
Mark anthony

The evil men do lives after them,
While the good is oft interred with their bones,
So let it be with Trump

njbr
njbr

meanwhile in GOP land..Kellyanne Conway sends out topless picture of her daughter...Sidney Powell starts PAC for her legal defense...

Cajundoug
Cajundoug

I think an important aspect is how Trump responded to the storming of the Capital. It’s been reported that he had to be talked into issuing a statement, and that it took a considerable amount of time. That seems like he was OK with what was happening. If I was in charge of the prosecution, I would be subpoenaing witnesses who were with Trump during that time. As much as anything this would be for the people of the USA to believe the stories of Trump’s behavior.

Casual_Observer
Casual_Observer

The longer Trump stays in the control of the GOP the better off Democrats will be. 2022 elections are 18 months away and Trump politically spokesman says he is going to primary anyone who crosses him. Expect more Georgia outcomes in 2022.

JG1170
JG1170

If Trump is not physically able to run in 4 years, then he'll run Ivanka as his proxy. The boys are too stiff and stylish Ivanka can siphon a few female democratic voters who aren't too committed to the commie cause. The voters will now they'll actually be voting for Donald Trump, just like voting for Michelle Obama would really be putting Obama back in charge for two more terms. The difference is Trump still has a legal term and Ivanka could conceivably have 2. Everyone mocked me when I said Trump would easily eviscerate Jeb and had the highest likelihood of winning the white house.

Carl_R
Carl_R

Did Trump incite an insurrection? There is not really any doubt about that. Will he be convicted? That is doubtful. It's a time when all Republican Senators will be forced to decide if they are loyal to the country, or loyal to Trump; to choose to either do the right thing, or to act like their narcissistic former President, and refuse to admit anything wrong was done.

If Trump is convicted, it will be painful, but then the Republican party can start to heal. It might take 4-8 years to heal, but it will at least be started. Remember that after Nixon resigned in August of 1974, knowing that he would be convicted, the Republican Party regrouped and reformed, and 6 years later, a stronger Republican Party took the White House for 12 years.

If he is acquitted, Trump will remain a festering wound that continues to destroy the Republican Party. Many will justifiably see the Republican Party as a party that stands for evil, and tolerates it. It will continue to shrink, and I would expect that they will remain out of power for 12-20 years. That, in turn, will allow time for the liberal wing of the Democrat Party to stamp an indelible footprint on the country, and for better or worse, the country will be changed forever.

timot78
timot78

Why did Roberts refuse to preside over the Impeachment? Isn't this his duty? Putting Patrick Leahy in charge will only create a notion of politicization of the process.

SmokeyIX
SmokeyIX

This is why the USA has the reputation it has for being a bunch of Bible thumping hypocrites. We're always causing insurrections in other countries. Hillary Clinton laughed at the insurrection in Libya which resulted in the rape and murder of Libya's head of state, the collapse of Libyan society, the refugee crisis, and the deaths of countless Libyans. Joe Biden flew to Kiev and backed the insurrection there which resulted in police engulfed in fire from Molotov cocktails. Everyone cheered when Iraqis were toppling statues of Saddam Hussein, the collapse of his government, the deaths of his sons and his own death. And it goes back decades, even the overthrow of democracies such as Iran's.

debracarter
debracarter

Hell no. I blare my horn, "There she blows again"! & It ends up on the news! Congresswoman Wash st. Jamie Herrara, didn't vote for Trump to not impeach. I was appalled. I'm not voting for her again. I threw a tizzy fit, now, she is feeling the back lash! As Dan New house. I told him Donald, Leave, & ride out into the sunset and just be quiet. Good thing the media of twitter, facebook & all those things he loves doing silenced him. Now, he can enjoy his retirement and you can forget him. He doesn't need to be in the limelight anymore, unless your stealing from him, then, I will get a phone call. He should have tried to pardon himself, hell, he was " doing it again, on every issue he or what they did to me 20 yrs ago, would have thought of. " He was doing his job, & if those people don't stick up for him, like who? They made me go through all that clearing of one's life to be the only one, well, I guess then your not my friend. No way, will you ever be. You'd be a hypocrite. I know it and you know it! You should be appreciated if what happened this past 4 yrs pre COV. You got out of alot of problems you were knee deep in.

5LeafClover
5LeafClover

It boggles the mind why Trump wasn't arrested immediately after Joe Biden's inauguration. There were supposed to be many sealed indictments ready to go as soon as Trump was no longer in power. I think there is a lot of cowardice and fear that arresting Trump on appropriate criminal charges now will lead to more violence. But remember the appeasement of Adolf Hitler backfired badly. There was a great lack of courage standing up to Hitler until it was too late to prevent horrifying worldwide death and destruction.

DanielleTwain
DanielleTwain

So sick of party politics. The dems wouldn't get rid of a lying, corrupt Clinton administration even for perjury and other crimes against the People. The republicans play party favorites and politics to protect lying, adulterating, treasonous, profiteering, power abusing, embezzling, insurrection and violence supporting fellow republicans like Trump despite clear evidence he was unfit for the office from day 1. Answer to our country's woes, shoot all the politicians or hang them from their treason and violations of Oath and Constitution and start over as a nation.

DanielleTwain
DanielleTwain

Dems, Republicans - all corrupt, lying, treasonous, embezzling, oath violating, power hungry, self-serving, corporate whoring, Constitution violating, perjuring, adulterating whores who protect their own to the detriment of the People. Dems would not get rid of the Clinton Administration. Repubs would not convict or get rid of the toxic Bush Jr. or Trump despite clear evidence of trading with the enemy, consorting with known enemies of the People, denial of rights, conspiracy to deny rights, embezzlement, tax fraud, perjury, using public office for private gain and to benefit their friends, etc. Per our founding fathers, the only answer to our country's woes at this point with any hope for justice like we the common folks face is to hang or shoot all the politicians for treason and start over as a nation going back to the basic tenets of our country as shown in the Federalist Papers and the original intent of the Constitution.


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