Final Debate: Unforced Error by Biden on Energy, Lies, Missed Opportunities

Mish

The final debate is over. Both sides will say they won. Depending on what "win" means perhaps both did.

Who Won?

Off the cuff, I would score it as a small victory for Trump. However, Trump needs more than a small victory.

Trump needs a crushing victory that brings in most of the undecided voters and switches a few others.

Biden's Gaffe on Energy

Right at the end of the debate, Biden volunteered I “would transition from the oil industry” because “the oil industry pollutes significantly” 

Trump pounced “Will you remember that, Texas? Will you remember that, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma? Ohio?”

Here's another view.

All in all Biden was more specific, told fewer lies, and was far more compassionate and caring. 

Biden scored points on the Trump administration separating over 500 kids from their parents who are now nowhere to be found. 

Trump repeated his claim he has done more for blacks than an president since Abraham Lincoln is of course ridiculous. Johnson passed civil rights and voting rights legislation. 

Trump also claimed he was the least racist person in the room. Such nonsense is highly unlikely to play well with women and blacks. 

Trump repeated lies about Biden placing a ban on fracking. 

Trump got very defensive over tax returns as Biden made a good counter to the Hunter Biden issue by bringing Trump's tax returns into play.

Trump was most effective when he challenged Biden repeatedly about not accomplishing anything when he was vice president.

Biden admitted he made a mistake on legislation that resulted in higher black incarceration. 

Yes Biden made a mistake but that bill passed the Senate unanimously. Admitting mistakes is the smart thing to do.

Opportunity Missed

Trump left a huge opening for Biden on prison incarceration. 

Biden should have asked "What have you done in 4 years to change drug laws that throw mainly blacks in prison over marijuana?" 

That could have been a telling blow.  

Votes Already Cast

Over 50 million people have already voted. They did not care one bit about this debate.

Will it change minds? If so, why?

The most likely impact is not many, or at least not enough.

It's "possible" the public sees more than I do one way or another. But that does go both ways.  

What Does Win Mean?

The bar was set low for Biden in the first and low for Trump in the second.

A theme I heard for months from Republicans was "Just wait for the debates. Trump will kill him. Biden has dementia."

The debates are over. The first was an obvious disaster for Trump. I will watch the polls on this one.

In neither debate did Biden come across as someone with dementia.

Realistically, if this final debate does not change enough minds, Biden won, even if the referees (the overall public) claim Trump landed more punches.

Mish

Comments (134)
No. 1-25
Bagger
Bagger

As an interested observer from UK I have one question: -
Are these two guys really the best candidates you can come up with?
Seem to remember I also asked that question 4 years ago.

humna909
humna909

As an Australia reader I agree the Biden made a big unforced error on this:

I “would transition from the oil industry” because “the oil industry pollutes significantly”

Trump pounced “Will you remember that, Texas? Will you remember that, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma? Ohio?”

Seems to me to be totally unnecessary gift to Trump.

TimeToTest
TimeToTest

I had Biden firmly with the win in the election. Trump did quite a bit of damage to Biden tonight. I don’t know how much but in expect polls to tighten.

This one will come down to the wire. I think it could go either way at this point. The question is how much does Biden’s polices scare people? Trump made people stop and think if their hate was enough to vote for higher taxes and more regulation.My hope is for Trump to get re-elected and the Dems to win the senate. Gridlock is the best course.

truthseeker
truthseeker

I’m surprised why they didn’t talk more about how divided the country is, how the culture is falling apart all made so much worse by the pandemic and the BLM movement gaining even more support now by major companies. If Trump wins with so much hate, more rioting can be expected. If Biden wins the pressure for socialism, a universal basic income and all kinds of new regulations to support outrageous demands by the environmental lobbyists with huge subsidies for renewable energy sources, and carbon taxes to further cripple the oil industry just to start with, the pressure will be dramatic.

Webej
Webej

Both candidates did better than I expected, but my expectations are very low for these two.
Biden was somewhat more lucid, and Trump a little more genial.
In terms of policy substance, both just rattled off disjointed talking points, mostly untrue, unreasonable, far-fetched, crazy, etc.
Virtually nothing realistic or firm.

Final impression (not an American partisan): Bozo meets DumDum
Truly clownesque.
Struggle between who has the most hot air and who is the biggest bag of shit.

I disliked Obama (after being initially positive, when he kept no promises), but he was 6 orders of magnitude above this schoolyard taunt contest in terms of grasping issues.

FactsonJoe
FactsonJoe

Biden lost Pennsylvania and all other oil producing states with his getting rid of oil comments which were unbelievably stupid and banning fracking stance that Trump walked Biden into to deny what he had said about ending Fracking which makes Biden a LIAR in many Americans eyes was a huge vote loser both on ending fracking itself but also LYING about it.

Trump also brought up the laptop of Hunter Biden and the CORRUPTION emails and Joe Biden's denials were like a cornered animal and the switch to attack Trump's taxes and Chinese bank account of one of Trump's companies were pathetic and desperate distractions from Joe Biden.

One thing that was not brought up but should have been was that Biden supports sex changes for 8 year old children like Biden stated in his ABC Townhall.
A parent who wants to transition her/his child to a sex change at 8-year old should get a visit from Child Protective Services and have the children taken into care because it is clear that supporting and wanting a sex change for your 8-year old is child abuse and Biden supporting that is PEAK insanity.

Jojo
Jojo

I was out hiking. Missed everything. Oh well.

Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish

Well, Trump certainly put all his money on the Hunter laptops.

People understand and forgive crookedness in politicians. It's expected, not feared.

Trump goofed big-time on the last question. He should have applied judo and given an "I am the president for all Americans" answer before Biden could. Yes, Trump should have said what he said in his first TV appearance after winning the 2016 election.

FactsonJoe
FactsonJoe

The dude Mish quoted that is claiming Texas oil industry is in shambles is an "I'm an electric car driving liberal that works in public health" so I would not take that as the whole picture of Texas oil industry or US oil industry or the strength of wind and solar.

The global oil demand crashed due to Covid and on top of that Russia and Saudis started an oil price war until Trump got them and Mexico too to cut production and as part of that deal USA also cut production temporarily so the prices would rise to a level that is profitable for USA oil industry but still low enough so gasoline is cheap for voters so the layoffs are temporary until Covid is over and oil demand rises after which people will be hired back.

Texas wells are easy to close for a while but fracking needs to be sucked all the time so Texas took the brunt of the lowering of oil demand and production cuts in USA and those jobs should be back next year.
Texas is still pumping on many wells however because Texas crude is easier and cheaper to make into gasoline than the fracked oil.

Jojo
Jojo

This is TOO FUNNY!

THE DAILY SHOW WITH TREVOR NOAH
DESI LYDIC FOX-SPLAINS THE HUNTER BIDEN "SCANDAL"
Highlight10/22/2020

Conspiracy theory-addled Desi Lydic unloads about the Hunter Biden pseudo-scandal pushed by Rudy Giuliani and the Trump administration, breathlessly connecting all the dots.

Sechel
Sechel

Trump also did poorly on health care and covid. By and large Biden outperformed. Most said the same. But even with a small win I expect the trajectory stays in tact. Trump needed a knockout. So by that measure a disaster. Biden did fumble on Energy. The answer was supposed to be a phase out of subsidies. Maybe this impacts Pennsylvania, Texas and Oklahoma but I doubt it as those interests were probably voting Trump anyway. Fact is there are few if any undecided votes

If you were an oil and gas MAGA voter in Pennsylvania and Texas you weren't voting for Biden anyway. So while Biden might have answered better , it doesn't matter. The Biden camp was never going to get these guys

Sechel
Sechel

Tactical error to make Hunter his debate plan. Trump should have made it economy. economy, economy. Trump was vulnerable every place else. The Hunter Biden story is wonky. Only someone who lives on Right Wing TV and reads the NY Post daily would get it. The story is just not very credible

Sechel
Sechel

While Biden "won" he wasn't always great. If Romney was the on that stage he would have cleaned Biden's clock. Republicans may be having a bit of last minute buyer's remorse

Mish
Mish

Editor

FactsOnJoe 10 hrs ago

"Chances of Biden having a meltdown just increased to 90%"

Sechel
Sechel

The irony is that Biden is not a great candidate. The election really is a referendum on Trump. The majority of the country believes Trump has failed. On the debate stage Biden can wander. People know that about it him. Its baked in . That's not to say Biden didn't have his moments. He had several. If this election had him squaring off against Mitt Romney the Republicans would be winning this hands down. But Romney isnn't the opponent Trump is.

Felix_Mish
Felix_Mish

This debate was well moderated. Muting worked and the moderator did her job when not aided by muting.

Sechel
Sechel

I reviewed the Senate Homeland Security report. Its not long. This is a key finding. So if the idea was to connect something to Joe Biden , its not there. If Hunter Biden were running for President there would be a problem but he's not.

"The extent to which Hunter Biden’s role on Burisma’s board affected U.S. policy toward Ukraine is not clear," the report finds.

FactsonJoe
FactsonJoe

Hunter Biden's laptop has emails which make it clear that Hunter Biden's role at Burisma affected US policy toward Ukraine and Burisma ASKED for Hunter Biden and Joe Biden to PROTECT the owner of Burisma and Burisma and Joe Biden did that by DEMANDING Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking into Burisma corruption before Biden's Air Force 2 left Ukraine otherwise Ukraine would NOT get the billion.

The Senate Homeland Security Report was made BEFORE the Hunter Biden laptop emails started becoming public after the Mac Repair dude gave Giuliani and his lawyer a copy of the harddrive in September after getting frustrated that FBI had Hunter Biden's laptop since December 2019 and did NOTHING.

Here is Joe Biden BRAGGING how he got the prosecutor fired:

KidHorn
KidHorn

I don't know who lied more, but Biden steadfastly claimed he did nothing wrong with regards to Hunter. If later, it's found he was clearly lying, this will hurt him far more than any lies Trump told.

PecuniaNonOlet
PecuniaNonOlet

Mish, your post is spot on. I thought trump did well but he had set the bar so low that maybe I am giving him extra credit where not really warranted. And you are right, millions have already voted and it wont make a difference.

As for the oil industry, i think the number of people in that industry is about a million out of 330 million is peanuts. The oil industry wont disappear overnight, but its days are numbered, many funds arent investing money there anymore moving on to alternative energy instead. It will get harder for big oil to get capital for those deep water drill and infrastructure projects. If you dont believe me just google.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab

What does "separating over 500 kids from their parents who are now nowhere to be found" say about the parents?

silverdog148
silverdog148

Biden is an extremely flawed/weak candidate, as others have mentioned any other GOP candidate would mop the floor with him, but it's not any other GOP candidate it's Trump who has bungled his way through the last four years, a possible flawed candidate against a proven flawed candidate.

This is basically the 2016 election but reversed, Biden will win, but it won't be Biden winning rather it will be a referendum on Trump, just as in 2016 it was a referendum on Hillary rather than Trump actually winning based on some solid platform. America is in for a wild ride the next few decades as you will see the same exact scenario but reversed in 2024.

Nickelodeon
Nickelodeon

I agree with you partially Mish, it was a mild Trump win IMO.

I have no earthly idea who will win and probably unlike most here I really don't care that much because I don't think it changes the long term course the USA is on- meaning some type of fiscal reset. (and I could be wrong)

I think this election will actually tell us whether we can ever trust polls again. It's almost an identical situation electorally speaking as last go round, with most polls showing a Biden win...but I have my doubts. Trafalgar polling- one of the few that got it right last time, is showing Trumping nosing out Biden....so we'll just have to wait and see.

dsinct
dsinct

Best part was when Biden threw Obama under the bus for the lack of accomplishments when they were in the white house.

bradw2k
bradw2k

"Trump also claimed he was the least racist person in the room. Such nonsense..."

He says a lot of nonsense but I'm inclined to believe he is not racist. I don't know of any racist statements he has made. Nationalistic xenophobic policies are something, but they aren't racist. It's almost as if the people who claim Trump is racist have never talked to an actual racist.


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