If Obama Said What Trump Just Did, Would You Support It?

Mish

Let's recap precisely what Trump said on Monday. Then I have questions.

Trump Statement

"If a city or a state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them,” said Trump.

With that, Trump threatened to use the Insurrection Act.

Defense Secretary Tries to Walk Back Trump Statement

If you support Trump, please note the Secretary of Defense, Mark Esper, Corrects Trump. 

“The option to use active-duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire situations. We are not in one of those situations now. I do not support invoking the Insurrection Act,” said Esper.

Esper Translated

We F'd up big time.

Esper's walk-back comes on the heels of scathing Op-Ed by retired Admiral Mike Mullen, a former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"I Cannot Remain Silent"

Mike Mullen , Seventeenth chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says I Cannot Remain Silent.

I am less confident in the soundness of the orders they will be given by this commander in chief, and I am not convinced that the conditions on our streets, as bad as they are, have risen to the level that justifies a heavy reliance on military troops. Certainly, we have not crossed the threshold that would make it appropriate to invoke the provisions of the Insurrection Act.

Furthermore, I am deeply worried that as they execute their orders, the members of our military will be co-opted for political purposes.

Too many foreign and domestic policy choices have become militarized; too many military missions have become politicized.  This is not the time for stunts. This is the time for leadership.

How often does a former head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff blast a sitting president?

Former Undersecretary Resigns From Defense Board

James N. Miller, a former Defense Undersecretary, sent a scathing letter of resignation yesterday to Esper. The letter directly accused Esper and Trump.

Law-abiding protesters just outside the White House were dispersed using tear gas and rubber bullets — not for the sake of safety, but to clear a path for a presidential photo op. You [Esper] then accompanied President Trump in walking from the White House to St. John’s Episcopal Church for that photo.

I must now ask: If last night’s blatant violations do not cross the line for you, what will?

I cannot believe that you see the United States as a “battlespace,” or that you believe our citizens must be “dominated.” Such language sends an extremely dangerous signal.

Instead of focusing on what is important, nitwits make a case that it was not tear gas but rather pepper spray.

Five Republican Senators Rebuke Trump

In a rare rebuke, five Republican Senators Criticized Trump

Sue Collins R-Maine: "It was painful to watch peaceful protesters be subjected to tear gas in order for the president to go across the street to a church that I believe he’s attended only once. I thought that the president came across as unsympathetic and as insensitive to the rights of people to peaceful protest."

Ben Sasse R-Nebraska: “There is a fundamental — a constitutional — right to protest, and I’m against clearing out a peaceful protest for a photo op that treats the Word of God as a political prop."

James Lankford R-Oklahoma: Lankford said it was “definitely not” right for peaceful protesters, who were gathered around Lafayette Park in front of the White House, to be sprayed with tear gas. And he criticized the president for walking to St. John’s Episcopal Church right before the 7 p.m. curfew, because “everyone knew there were going to be protesters in that area.”

Tim Scott: R-South Carolina: “If your question is: Should you use tear gas to clear a path so the president can go have a photo-op? The answer is no.

John Thune Senate Majority Whip R-South Dakota: “I hope he projects calm. I hope people act calmly,” Thune told reporters Tuesday. “He has moments. But I mean, as you know, it lasts generally as long as the next tweet.”

Question Time

This may be asking far too much, but can I please have an honest answer to a simple question:

What if this happened?

"If a city or a state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them,” said Obama.

I am supposed to believe that if Obama threatened to send in the military to resolve riots in states, Republicans would cheer from their rooftops, make lame excuses, or respond to reporters "I am late for lunch".

Yes, many Republican Senators made that "late for lunch" excuse yesterday when asked what they thought of the bible incident by reporter Kasie Hunt. Others pretended they did not see the news. 

I suggest most of the rabid Trump supporters along with Fox News and all the Republican Senators would go ape-s**t batty.

By the way, hypocrisy is on both sides. If Obama made that statement, Republicans would be up in arms, and most Democrat Senators would then look the other way. 

Trump's Bubble Just Shattered

For further discussion, including a list of senators "late for lunch" or allegedly unaware of the news, please see Something Changed for the Better: Trump's Bubble Just Shattered. 

Sadly, most people back parties and presidents, with only a small percentage sticking to beliefs. 

OK hypocrites, have at it. 

Addendum: New Rule: What If Obama Said It?

In response to my post, a friend sent this.

I had never seen that before. It's hilarious.

Mish

Comments (74)
No. 1-29
Tengen
Tengen

Of course they wouldn't support it. That's the whole point of the red/blue game, it's okay when my guy does it but not when your guy does it.

Specifically for Trump supporters, an even more pointed question would be whether they liked candidate Trump or POTUS Trump better, because they don't have much in common.

Sechel
Sechel

Good post. I was never a huge Obama fan so it would have been easy.

My follow up question to a Trump supporter and to you Mish would be what action would Trump have to take for you to not only lose faith in him but vote for the hypothetical smelly tuna fish sandwich running against him

Sechel
Sechel

Didn't know about the James Miller resignation. Good for him. More people need to. It's come to that.

Oh a former undersecretary. But still important

rafterman
rafterman

Yes

silverdog148
silverdog148

Mish, you underestimate the committed support Trump has among his hardcore base. I believe he could outright murder someone on television and you would still have hardcore supporters stick with him.

I noticed this in a good friend this week in person, he was of the opinion that looters needed to be shot and killed/thrown in jail for years, when I disagreed he was very surprised, you could tell he had been in some kind of bubble where everyone agreed that was the answer. He challenged me as to what my solution would be and framed the situation in life and death terms, when I told him looting was not a life and death situation he didn't get it. He posed a hypothetical too me, what would I do if my store was being looted and it was the source for food my family.

I told him the situation was not life and death, that food could be sourced from other places and that I would not shoot a looter for stealing, stealing does not carry a death sentence for me. I carry all the time and told him I would only use deadly force if I felt my own life was in danger.

I noticed then and after reading a piece in the Atlantic that his hardcore supporters believe this is an active life and death struggle and hence anything is justified , hence why he can do anything and his hardcore base will not erode. It's outright madness but even good people when they get into that type of thinking will justify anything.

tokidoki
tokidoki

Mish said : "hypocrisy is on both sides". Both sides are scum. They should destroy one another and leave us be.

davebarnes2
davebarnes2

I cannot imagine Barack Obama saying those words.

Augustthegreat
Augustthegreat

Obama is not a saint, but he would have never said what King Donald have uttered, because Obama was a president, not a king.

RonJ
RonJ

"Sue Collins R-Maine: "It was painful to watch peaceful protesters be subjected to tear gas in order for the president to go across the street to a church that I believe he’s attended only once."

“Maybe they didn’t have tear gas, I don’t know,” Pelosi said, describing the clearing of Lafayette Park on Monday.

A video posted on a previous thread, showed that police were not wearing gas masks in a video that showed devices which were discharging what appeared to be smoke. That section of the video, which also later showed Trump walking to and arriving at the church, looked to be a different location than the church.

Why was some propagandist trying to link the two separate events together?

Realist
Realist

All the Trump supporters on the blog will see no evil, and hear no evil. They will simply speak evil. Like their leader. Worst President in US history. I feel very sorry for Americans.

Mish
Mish

Editor

"Mish, you underestimate the committed support Trump has among his hardcore base. "

Wrong. I assume Trump will get 99% of them. That is about 38% of the nation.

There is about 46% of the nation who would never vote for him (that is more of a guess than the former).

This election does not have a damn thing to do with either group.
It will be won or lost by siwings in moderates.

This is precisely why appealing to the base is damn idiotic. The Base is going nowhere. They will never vote for anyone but Trump, no matter what.

Equally so, it is idiotic for the Democrats to alleal to the radical Left.

Right now, Trump just blew a big hole in potential support from him from moderates. THAT is what matters.

Blurtman
Blurtman

"I must now ask: If last night’s blatant violations do not cross the line for you, what will?"

Maybe killing American citizens with Hellfire missiles would do it.

DBG8489
DBG8489

Yes I would.

You and everyone else act like the Insurrection Act has never been used for situations like this.

The last time it was used for rioting and looting was during the 1992 LA riots. George Bush used it and the press for the most part backed him. The soldiers went in, helped the locals restore order, and when it was over, they packed up and left.

Government exists solely to protect the rights of ALL it's citizens. If there is a case where the lives and/or property of some citizens are being repeatedly threatened by other citizens, and the local, city, or state governments cannot or will not do anything about it, the federal government has to intervene.

During desegregation, the governor of one state called up his National Guard troops to prevent black kids from attending the white schools. The president sent in federal troops because the lives of some citizens were being threatened by others and the city, local, and stare governments refused to do anything to protect them.

What was the name of the act he used again?

Oh yeah - the Insurrection Act.

So yes if the situation was the same, I would agree that Obama should definitely threaten to use the act to send in troops.

Six000mileyear
Six000mileyear

If burning buildings and cars over several city blocks isn't enough justification to bring in the National Guard or the armed forces, then someone has lost the argument.

Captain Ahab
Captain Ahab

Before looking at what everyone else says, look at what Trump said.

"If a city or a state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them."

IS THIS NOT HIS CONSTITUTIONAL DUTY?

Is he supposed to sit on his ass while politically motivated city and state leaders do nothing either because they believe it makes Trump look bad, or they don't give a damn about their citizens.

Now, what if Obama said the same thing? For a similar situation, when other forces are clearly insufficient, he is Constitutionally bound to deploy forces as he deems appropriate. Of course, Obama was good at drawing meaningless lines in the sand.

borderdenizen
borderdenizen

Ahab, that is the exact point that is trying to be made... before anything was said in the peanut gallery. If Obummer was to say this would you still post the same support? Or is partisanship more important. I suspect that there would have been an outcry and crocodile tears.

Zsparky1
Zsparky1

That's not a legitimate question! Satan would not send in the troops to stop the demons. But President Trump would send in the troops to stop the demons. I would support either of them sending in the troops to stop the demons. Protests Donald Trump agrees with. Riots do not have a place in America!

AWC
AWC

Observing the blue team red team bickering here, is like watching two mules kicking each other in the head, arguing over which flawed political ideology has screwed the country over the most.

Never mind the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

thimk
thimk

didn't Trump send 5000 federal troops in a support role to protect the borders.?

SDR Bug
SDR Bug

Mish, Mullen is a retired admiral; he was Chairman when I was in the Navy.

Broonze
Broonze

The Myth of Police Racism

"In 2019 police officers fatally shot 1,004 people, most of whom were armed or otherwise dangerous. African-Americans were about a quarter of those killed by cops last year (235), a ratio that has remained stable since 2015. That share of black victims is less than what the black crime rate would predict, since police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. In 2018, the latest year for which such data have been published, African-Americans made up 53% of known homicide offenders in the U.S. and commit about 60% of robberies, though they are 13% of the population.

The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer."
I support the "thin blue line"

Sechel
Sechel

General Mattis has just condemned Trump in no uncertain terms saying he was dangerous for our Democracy and a threat to our constitution

wmjack
wmjack

Mish your lib side is really showing these days... perhaps if your property was being destroyed you would agree with TRUMP rather than the local do nothing politicians that are letting their cities burn

Helene84
Helene84

Obama sent the Feds and DHS out to crack heads across the country to stamp out the Occupy Wall Street protests, which were much more peaceful than these protests have been. Plus OWS didn't take place during a deadly pandemic where we are supposed to be locking down to save lives. He also sat back and watched as Native Americans were brutalized by police at Standing Rock despite many prominent environmental and political leaders begging for him to intervene, so I don't for a second believe he cared about the rights of protestors.

RLJ
RLJ

Yes I would support the use of the Insurrection Act had it been invoked the day after the riots started. This was an orchestrated attack on the foundation of the country and while there were peaceful protestors, there were also extreme left-wing radicals intent on undermining the country and the second class of criminals, looters. Both of these need to meet sufficient force that is capable and motivated to stop the threats and arrest those involved and bring them to justice. Those are not protesters, they are not out there to honor George Floyd. Mayors and governors, mostly Democrats, lack the will and intent to stop the violence, just like they instituted draconian lockdown rules and refused to reopen as a political weapon. Funny how stay home and social distancing went out the window in those places. Too many are using this as a political weapon against Trump just like they did with the Chinese Wuhan Flu. Mish has joined the ranks of the anti-Trump political class.

chewinfoil
chewinfoil

I do this all the time to people who I think are way too dogmatic in social affiliations that have an overpowering us vs them mentality. If you were to put the hated words and actions of your enemy into the mouths and hands of your idols, would anything change? Only a sadly small subset would change their views. Most just retrofit reality to fit whatever morality play that they believe they have a starring role in. Can't destabilize my carefully crafted sense of self, ya know.

jd72
jd72

Why are they still " protesting" the officers have been charged and currently in jail. This is not about protest it's about the destruction of the USA, so yes I think the troops should have been called out immediately and yes I would have supported Obama for doing the same. I would like to know who is funding this for damn sure the so called protesters aren't.

awc13
awc13

of course they would support obama saying it. they were A OK with obama putting kids in cages. trump does it and oh, that is evil!

Herkie
Herkie

Such a loaded question, if Obama called for totally unregulated automatic weapons sales the right would see to it there was never another gun sale in ths nation. We all know it.


Global Economics

FEATURED
COMMUNITY